I'm not sure that 79% of Americans believe that women and men should be equal. I think that 79% of Americans think that SAYING that women and men should be equal is the popular opinion right now and so that's what they report.
We still need to compare how many men ACT LIKE they are equal to women with what they say. A very different number.
There was a study a while back that scared me: after a particularly disgusting rape on a campus, the school asked men if they have sex with a woman without her consent or if they would rape a woman.
Something like 85% of the college men said that they would have sex with a woman without her consent, but when they got to the question asking if they would rape a woman, only 13% said Yes.
There are a couple of conclusions to draw from this study. 85% of college men don't understand that "having sex with a woman without her consent" IS RAPE.
And that 13% of college-educated men would admit that they would rape a woman is terrifying, but it confirms the rule of thumb estimate - that about 10% of men are rapists. Only it's even more than 10%.
What's your problem with "feminists"? Have they made you feel "less-than"?
I advise you to stop putting words in other people's mouths. You have obviously never spoken to a "feminist," unless you count screaming in their face "speaking to them."
Oh, I was anticipating someone in the comments throwing one of these "but what about men..." rebuttals. Your concern is valid. Anyone raping anyone is WRONG. But the timing of your argument is equally WRONG. Have you even read the entire article? The writer has backed up every single fact with numbers to bring to light how unsafe women around the world are. That's how you raise concerns. If you are so worried about young boys getting raped, who is stopping you from writing an elaborate piece on that and bringing up this concern in a more sensible manner? The problem is that you don't care about that abuse unless a woman talks about women's issues. Your "concern" is a rebuttal, nothing more, and that's pretty shameful.
Women have long been neglected in medical studies. Studies have been done on males with heart 💜 problems but not women until recently. Studies on menstrual problems have either not been done or not done enough.
Frank is always on the lookout for posts by women that he then jumps on and wanks on about “medical misandry”, mainly breast vs prostate cancer, like it’s a competition. I think Frank is a very hurt little boy lashing out at women and girls who largely ignore him because they’ve seen it all before.
I became a feminist when I was a young boy and I heard our neighbor smashing his wife’s head against our common wall. Later when she tried to escape, he jumped on the hood of the car, fell off and she drove over him. SHE was charged with murder. They eventually dropped the charges but I knew how wrong it was. I’ve fought against inequality and violence my whole life and it doesn’t feel like it’s made even a bit of difference. As a man I hear how most men talk about and to women. When I speak up they laugh and call me names but sticks and stones…
Tell me, please, what can I do? What can all of us do to protect the women and girls in our life… and those we’ve never met? It’s a malignancy that must be stopped.
You and Patrick Stewart and so many others. Just keep being you. Out loud. Honestly, that's all you need to do. Because angry men don't care what women think. But as the number of men who feel the way you do grows, it will have an impact. It's can't not.
Not that many. And if tigers were roaming the street killing only toddler male children, not a single man would say "what can I do, oh, tell me what to do!" They'd solve it. I'm not picking on Darren or anyone else. But man, WOMEN are not going to solve this. MEN will need to be the ones to stop men. So, my recco is that the men who hate violence against women figure out all by themselves how to stop men from doing it - figure it out like your mother sister wife and daughter's lives depend on it. Because they do.
No. Women have to exercise our power to keep ourselves and our children safe. Men, absolutely will not, heavy not ever, and will not ever, change anything..they will not. The good men are far too few. They did this on purpose, it's the vast majority of them. They are our enemy. We need to use our power to get them away from us. No marriages, no living together. People will still have sex, women need to stop having relationships with men. The nuclear family is a killing field. Stop living with them stop trying to "have a family" with a man for a partner. There is no reason not to be as physically strong as we can be (we should all be lifting anyway for our health) and there's no reason for us not to have a lot of weapons. The problem with these men is their brains didn't fully develop because they have never done caregiving tasks. Our sons dont need to have that problem. They absolutely do not care if we get raped or if our kids get raped or if we die. Also a correction 51 percent of child rapes are by the child's father.
I’m not saying we wait for men. Of course women can and will do what we can to stop it. But we can do it only imperfectly without men. Men will have to learn. Some will need consequences imposed on them to learn. Some will want their sons to do better, and/or want better for their daughters, and make the needed changes to ensure it is so.
and I actually agree with everything you say here. Those are the consequences that will lead to change.
I think if we rely on studies like the university of edinburg study with the anonymous self report, which is still an underreporting, but certainly more accurate than what cps can.corrobirate, one in seven report they would rape a child if they could get away with it and one in twenty have said they already have. That's a good enough basis for decisions to be made by women, I should look back at that and see what it says about fathers, we can't have pedophiles in our homes and I, for one, have certainly dated more than 20 men, in a group of 21 three want to rape children and one already has ...nuclear family thing is not it. Most of them have kids are married, and well off. According to that study
I got it from rainn. Which I think is where the other info came from. I can go back and check what I read later and come back with what I find. I was wondering which one read it wrong or if we have some other stay here by accident
Ok I looked and I actually can't find a disentangled statistic for biological fathers at all. It's set up the same way to some degree like the same format as two months ago but several categories are now missing and what we have is larger categories like people know. To the child etc. the numbers are as they were, of course. I trust rainn implicitly, they acknowledge their limitations regarding data collection. The hurdle with csa is that they're sticking with (understandably I think) what is reported and substantiated by CPS. Of course this is not even close to the actual numbers. In any event as for biological fathers I can't find any number of any kind on rainn. If someone else finds it please give me a heads up about where. I believe it's that of the family members who offended 51 percent were biological fathers. Not 51 percent of the total offenders but that's still a lot.
I understand the exhaustion that fuels this statement, Sanda. I've felt it, too. I also believe that women have the capability to change the world in a way that those who are served by the current system cannot. They will try to tweak the system because, to them, it works. Women see how the foundation was deliberately laid askew. We see the larger systems of power that are designed to betray those who serve them. We know a tweak won't fix anything.
I won't tell you to change your view (there is value in this approach - women can't remodel a system by themselves, and telling others to fix what they broke like the lives of those they love depend on it is a stirring call to action). Instead, I will continue to try to build a better system using the insight my exclusion has brought. And I will applaud you as you attempt to mobilize those who are served by the current system.
The cool thing is we don't need their particular to stay unmarried and refuse to live with them. That alone makes a world of difference. Not telling men (I used to think this was morally wrong I changed my mind) who their kids are will prevent a lot of danger as well. Not asking for or allowing their participation in parenting is a big step.
I read a wonderful article today about a German police commissioner (or someone like that) public ally acknowledging that women who don't date men are statistically much safer. I think you'd like it (I'll post the link later, but I don't have it to hand right now).
You're right that we need to step out of the same patterns and into our own power. That doesn't mean shunning men, but we must refuse to participate in the endless cycle of victim, aggressor, savior that fuels the patriarchy. And your approach is one good way to do that. It may not be the best approach for everyone (I believe that men need to learn to cultivate the same relationship building and holding skills women are trained into from birth, and families are one place for them to learn), but for many, it's the most straightforward way to stop the cycle.
Yes and thank you I read that,.you're right it was a police commissioner. I think men should be in families just not alone with a wife and children..that's the thing. Everyone needs a family and that can be good, but the nuclear family is a massively dangerous and expensive folly if social engineering that has failed spectacularly. It's too dangerous. If men are raised it to believe they're superior and entitled it will go a long way towards teaching them not to be violent and they won't be able to corner victims anyway. The Leah protection of children can be accomplished by men not knowing who their kids are as well. Their violent and sexual abuse are too often facilitated rather than ended by the justice system.. just like domestic.violwnve and rape. I believe that if we end these systems then life will change in such a way that men will be given more caregiving duties at you get ages and.thwir brains will develop fully, more often, and sooner. If you Google "male brain development from caregiving" you can see what I'm talking about. I'm of the belief that we will have fewer sociaptjic violent men that way. Also they,most likely, will feel emotionally connected to their family and not feel like creating their identity out of feeling like they have power over a woman.
I'm not sure if that might not be a self-defeating tactic, in the long run? I'm convinced that the roots of the patriarchy and institutions like marriage lie in men's insecurity/uncertainty about fatherhood. Obviously, women always knew they were the mothers of their children, but until the advent of DNA testing men could never be 100% certain. I'm think that that's what led men to control women's reproductive autonomy and ultimately gave rise to the patriarchy. I have no real evidence for this (but see below), much less proof (I doubt it's even possible to prove), nor have I come across any similar theory elsewhere. I can only say that I find it a persuasive explanation. One thing that might be considered corroborating evidence is that harems were guarded by eunuchs. It's a common misconception that eunuchs were incapable of sexual intercourse, they were. The salient thing about eunuchs is that they were infertile and incapable of impregnating anyone. I believe that there is ample evidence that eunuchs did have sexual relationships with the women they were guarding. As evidence for the theory it's weak, I know, but it does at least suggest that the men who kept harems were more concerned about ensuring that their offspring were truly theirs than any infidelity among its women.
It was not my intention, nor do I wish to deter you from any action you find appropriate, I just thought it's a point you might want to consider.
Men don't need to know if they have children. It's not natural for men to know if they have children and it's not helpful . The nuclear family is a bad idea that doesn't work. It was invented by men when they enslaved women after the invention of agriculture. That is when they seized all resources and wealth for themselves and enslaved women so they could force them to reproduce and claim the children as their property and have farm workers for themselvea for free.
It was a out money. Fatherhood isn't a natural part of human society. It was millions of years men didn't know which children belonged to them and everything was fine. Men should not be the people women raise children with as anyone can see by what a total failure it is. Children should be raised in a larger community a family or social group. Men cam.cimreinutw by caring for their sisters kids or their siblings. They don't have to have power to be part of a family and they do need to stop having a way to isolate their victims. It's too hard for two adults and their kids to survive and do all the work anyway. It's crushing even when the man helps.
Yes. Do it out loud. Call them out on their b.s. Silence = assent. Too many men are silent about this. They allow the culture to fester amongst themselves. But eventually the rotten apples will cause the whole barrel to rot.
Angry feminist women have waged war against men for the last 50 years. They, and their male enablers, created 10 offices for women’s health, but ignored men’s health. They made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer. Male feminists like Darren Weir may find that out the had way.
Oh - and I have received 4 employment settlements for sex discrimination against men, because the feminists in HR never even tried to hide it.
While it might not feel like it is making any difference please remember that there are those of us that know, that feel safe around a man who speaks up. Your energy is different and many of us feel it. Thank you for continuing to be a real man in this world. We need you. We appreciate you.
This is very true — I just said that to a man I know and have only talked to a handful of times. The way he talks about his love for his daughter, the way he talks about his wife, and his overall energy feels warm. Comforting. Safe. It does feel very different.
Some men, of course, feel threatening from 200 yards away and you just know. But the majority of men feel like “Hmmm. Maybe. I’m not sure yet. For right now, right here, it seems ok. But I am scanning every word or gesture because…I just don’t know.” And there’s the exhaustion.
I would add that that vibe is lived and through truth. I knew a man who would loudly claim that he is a feminist and protects women but I felt was threatening and turned out to be very arrogant and mansplained so much. Another man I worked with on a committee did not self proclaim this but showed it in his behavior and how he worked in a group. He is a safe person. The first one bulldozed and told us how to be better progressives. The other one collaborated, listened and made space.
Read "erased: what American patriarchy has hidden from us". Follow the sources. Learn about how deeply entrenched this *system* is that TRAINS men to be.... this. And help tear it the fuck down and build new systems, matrianarchy, based on care for human beings and the planet we all share. We will never build a just world playing within an unjust system. The structures must be eradicated.
You are already doing what I most want from men, to speak up and confront misogyny. I'm absolutely sure it's making a difference, we just don't always get to see the fruits of our actions. You understand what a lot of men miss which is yes that's risky and uncomfortable to challenge men, as are the life or death consequences of women's interactions with too many men.
If you are falsely accused of rape or paternity, you will see what feminism is really all about. They also made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer.
If you get prostate cancer, you will learn that your fellow feminists made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer.
And, women batter men as often as the converse. Your feminist pals didn’t mention that to you
What can you do to protect women from inequality and male violence? For starters, quit allowing Islam into your country. Oops! A “feminist” like yourself could never be Islamophobic, right?
I was looking forward to this past weekend as a "feel good" weekend. The US Naval Academy Alumni Association was helping the USNA Women Special Interest Group host a "50 Years of Women" celebration, with talks, interviews, and a gala celebration party. Alumnae who are/were admirals, commanding officers, submariners [my favorite], astronauts, successful post-Navy civilians... it was great. They did a participant group photo on the last day, and even zoomed in I couldn't make out faces — too many people! All covered on social media, of course!
I hope all those women felt safe there. I bet they did, in that moment.
That made me smile, Jack. That must have been really nice to watch. It brings up an interesting thought, though. In a crowd, in public. Maybe that's where
In a crowd, in a group, in a room, at a table... surrounded by sisters who went through the same things, or worse, going through the Naval Academy. Women who, no matter what else, will always have each other's backs. Women who are stronger together. (Okay, I stole that last one from the event motto.)
I was in the first class with women in 1976 — I have friends who still have nightmares, and at least one who didn't go to the event because she can't deal with the memories without an anxiety attack.
I did electrical work with guys who assumed I was one of the guys. I let them; it made life easier. My partner developed early onset Alzheimer's and I had to retire early to take care of her. On my last day, a normalish seeming young man from another company was installing a sound system. I told him what happened and that it was my last day. He paused for a couple of moments and then said, "Is it too late to get a divorce?"
I was just too stunned to reply. Too raw. How could anyone think like that? I packed my tools and never went back. Just another of many examples of how their minds work while they look normal on the outside.
As far as dating sites go, and men's b.s. in general, I cheerfully advocate reading Jennie Young's material. (https://substack.com/@jennieyoung) She teaches the practical (not-rocket-science) application of Critical Discourse Analysis to what men's words reveal about their true selves vs. what they say.
But then sometimes they just say it. Especially when they believe that only men are in the room.
This is a great article with a lot of very important data and analysis.
I wanted to briefly say my opinion as someone who I would say "feels" like a minority of men are "good men." I would say this is how I feel. When I read statistics like this or hear stories I feel awful. I'm not saying this for sympathy, because feeling awful is important for really understanding how awful it is. I think even "good men" who say "not all men" say that because they are looking to protect themselves from the idea that they are "bad." Most men are afraid to acknowledge that they are a part of an oppression that goes back to the beginning of humanity. They are not mentally equipped to understand something like that.
And again I want to say it's not an excuse. I've needed a lot of support and work to accept that most men are dangerous to women, and that that is still true even if I try not to be a part of that statistic. It feels quite awful to feel that my base nature as a man is awful and predatory. Its hard not to overlap my personal worth with that of one of the most significant identity I hold in the eyes of society, but its still important to not put up those walls when told stories. We have to accept them and keep listening to truly understand the reality of those who do not identify as our group.
In more optimistic news, some archaeological findings suggest that men actually have not always oppressed women. It may be a relatively “young” development (in terms of humanity’s 200,000 years of existence).
Indeed, up until about 7000 years ago, most if not all of the world was matriarchal to one degree or another. The War on Women, which we euphemistically call "patriarchy" to make it sound nicer, is NOT timeless. It has a beginning, and it has an end. And the end is sooner than many people think, as that evil system is currently in its death throes, hence all the lashing out in an extinction burst. Only when women finally reclaim their rightful place as the new leaders of the free world, will there every truly be lasting peace in this world, Goddess willing.
oh okay I see what you are saying and understand. Sometimes the right thing to do might just be to accept it and move forward rather than what i did with writing a whole paragraph about it and make it about me. Thank you for your comment
I appreciate you reading this and taking the time to write, Ryan, even if what you wrote wasn’t 100% “politically correct.” I’m guessing that this feels like a safer place to express yourself on the topic (including how it makes you feel about yourself at times) than to do so with other men. And therein lies the problem that can only be solved by men. Thank you for being an ally to women; now, please spread the word wherever, whenever, however you can. 🙏
The situation is now so screwed up that even when a man does speak up in support of women, we have to suspect that it's a ruse of some sort. The trust factor is in the gutter.
Thank you for writing this Linda. I’m scared. So fucking scared that my baby girl is going to grow up and not be safe anywhere. Scared because I’ve seen how disturbingly common it is for this stuff to happen and no one bats an eye.
Not long ago, a nearby school board member attended a public and live-streamed meeting where he turned to one of the students, touched her arm, and told her that she’s hot. He asked where she went to school. The other school board members laughed.
No one said anything about it.
After the incident went viral on social media the school “censured” him. But he didn’t lose his job or face any real consequences. I actually know a few people who know him and apparently he does that all the time. A fat, balding, creepy old man fawns at and flirts with children in broad daylight. No consequences. Even when it goes viral on social media.
We live in a red state. A very red state. So I shouldn’t be this shocked or angry because republicans do it all the time—they’re currently doing it with the Epstein files—but I am repulsed and desperate, so desperate, to get the fuck out of here.
I don’t have a good answer tbh. I’ve got a unique lifestyle where I exist in a state of near total social isolation (for reasons you can probably infer from my first comment).
I’m active in spaces like this, and do everything I can to be an ally. I do my best to not side with the executioner. But really, I have no idea. I just don’t.
The best things you can do are give her a good sense of self worth so when someone is trying to impress her with nonsense she'll sniff it from a mile away, teach her that she doesn't have to be nice if she feels uncomfortable and give her the words to advocate for herself, teach her how to fight... we may not be as physically strong but someone's willingness to fight will deter many. She's going to get hurt and especially by guys, but you can do a lot to save her from the worst of it :/
Motherless getting this kind of coverage most likely means the views for this month will blow all other months out of the water, but framing it as ‘the rape academy got as many views as temu or Reddit’ really helps put this epidemic in perspective.
We are living through and epidemic of sexual violence, and I should know because the first time I was sexually abused I was 3yo, then again at 19yo…asking a 3yo to ‘prove it’ is just disgusting as it took me 37 years to even be able to articulate what happened to me before I ever even knew the words
Thank you for writing this. Really sobering. I spoke with my friend last night who has young adult daughter. She said a lot of young women are choosing to be alone. The men are devolving while women are evolving. Why would they want a relationship with a man who thinks she is not entitled to be an equal? So this revenge murder is a scary thing.
I had an older white male friend say to my face “it’s hard being a white male these days.” I gave him an earful and I call him out on other inappropriate things he says. And he seems to be processing it and I see less of it coming from him, which is good because I’m a woman and he seems to be listening. So, even though some of these guys won’t listen to a woman and more guys need to speak up, maybe we women can help some men to the other side of their misogyny and locker room talk so they can help others get there.
The idea of the eye test is what I can't shake. I don't have a good answer, but I want to say what I keep coming back to.
Humans have always been capable of this. History is worse, not better. Women were property. Public torture was entertainment. Witches burned. We've made real progress, but it's halting, and we lose ground as we gain it. The arc doesn't bend on its own. It bends because each generation raises the next one to be better than they were, and that's the work. That's the only work that has ever moved anything.
Right now we're failing at it.
Somewhere porn stopped being understood as fantasy the way a movie is. For a lot of kids it's the first and primary way they learn what sex is. They get phones at 10. They meet hardcore material before a first kiss. Their sexual imagination forms there, with no one talking to them, because fathers aren't and schools won't. The vacuum gets filled by Tate and whoever comes next. Algorithms don't raise children well. They raise them for engagement, which means they raise them on the worst of what's in us.
That's the step back happening while we watch. Not that things were better before, they weren't. But we're handing boys worse raw material than the last generation got, and then we'll be shocked at what they become.
If there's an answer it has to start with how we're forming them. That's where progress actually gets made or lost. And right now we're losing it.
There's a lot to be said about it getting worse because those who get caught suffer no consequences. Start removing body parts and I bet more people will think twice.
To all the rape apologists who pop up in these comments on pieces (some are bots, based on their characteristics) about this DIY drug and rape site-
ONE IS TOO MANY.
Stop arguing about numbers, and evil “agendas.”’
You know what’s an evil agenda? Ignoring for thousands of years the cries of sisters, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, girlfriends, wives, children- ignoring or not believing them and not seeking justice and how to make this behavior stop and become rare in our civilization.
But no- it’s waaahh, waaahh, poor me, imma good boy. Lemme quote numbers and help NO ONE but myself feel better. Such mean women - we should all live in the fantasy world like I do where only guys in dark alleys and occasional creeps hurt women. And imma save the women and children with my big hero talk like I’m in a movie! Look at me! Don’t look at the actual darkness fomenting and gathering strength. Just know it’s not me and you should just trust guys with no anger about the high traffic to a DIY rape site. Guys like the not me and those numbers are fake in comment sections are as useful as vomit flavored chewing gum.
BE AN ADULT and teach yourself about the problem and it’s ugly reality. It doesn’t stop existing because you have never had to deal with it. If you’re upset and mad because it makes women even more uncomfortable with men- be mad at the MEN, not the women, for the unsafe environment. We are simply protecting ourselves, using our survival instincts, and using our power to protect not just our gender- but any who are vulnerable to that level of depravity and criminal disorder.
If you refuse to believe a lot of men are that depraved, well- hope it never happens to you or someone you care about. Because by then you make the stark realization that indeed-
Reading that “79%” statistic makes me remember being in college and having my sister tell me a kid I knew from high school sexually assaulted one of her friends and thinking, “That can’t be, he’s a really nice dude!” because he was nice to ME, and I responded with something like, “Are you sure?” and she dropped it. I wonder how many guys have had this experience, and how many women who are close to them never told them about anything like that again once they didn’t believe it the first time.
I am horrified at my response, twenty years after the fact. My kid will know better. I will make sure of it.
Teach him about the Red Zone. Every university woman gets taught about it when they arrive on campus as incoming freshmen. It's a six week window when the danger of campus rape is most acute. That's when we learn about walking in groups, knowing where the blue light trail is, not going to parties at frat houses alone even if you're dating a member ( maybe especially when you date a frat member), studding your keys between your fingers. Tell him that it is his responsibility to be the guy who intervenes, who steps up and tells predators to stop and leave a young woman alone, to be the guy who goes to a girl whose drink he saw getting spiked then tells her and takes it from her. Teach him these things. Because the number one thing that derails a young woman's university career is being raped on or near campus during her freshman year.
Well, he’s two, so first I’m going to make sure he understands how to hear and accept “no” as an answer (for literally anything). But yeah. Heard and locked in for future reference. Thank you.
I'm 54. At 9 I was sexually assaulted by two men. At 16, I was raped in an alleyway, by a boy I knew. By 22 I was in a physically and sexually abusive relationship.
In February, I discovered my my ex-fiance had stolen my life savings, and gambled everything away.
So, while I'm sure it's not all men, I've officially given up on them. It's not worth the chaos and the danger.
Thank you for this well-thought-out post. I feel the same disgust, the desperation, the despair every time I open the internet. I've been the woman who said no in the grocery store - and I remember thinking afterward that I should have been kinder with my refusal, let him down more gently. I remember the weeks of trying to convince myself that a stranger who comes up to you while you're doing your weekly shopping and asks you out has no right or reason to think that you're going to say yes. A flat, "no" and walking away is a good way to handle it! After all, he just walked up and asked with the same lack of preamble or warning. And yet, I still feel bad. Because I've been taught that being "nice" is my responsibility, not his.
Worse, these patterns seem to be solidifying and expanding. And I agree that the algorithms and the manosphere are at the core of the issue. Outrage and a victimization mindset (distinct from true victimization) have been masterfully captured by the prevailing storytelling mechanisms of society and redirected at minorities: women, immigrants, the global majority, lgbtqia+, the list could go on. Because we've all been betrayed by the system we were taught to revere, and that outrage has to go somewhere. So we get the manosphere. We get increasing rates of violence. We get normalization that exacerbates all of the above. Because what matters isn't that the feelings of betrayal and outrage are aimed at the cause, what matters is that they're aimed in such a way that can reinforce the system. What matters is that those who are in power can stay in power.
And I'm tired of it.
I'll tear down the patriarchy, sure (it's got to be done), but I'd rather cut out the middleman and build safe circles and communities around myself. Because the outrage is exhausting.
Anyway, thank you for this wonderful essay. Thank you for keeping your fire of outrage lit. Someone has to do it, and I'm too exhausted right now. Let me know if a cozy comedic fantasy short story about witches would help brighten your day - it's my version of resistance, and I'd be glad to share it with you if it might help. We're all in this together.
Very true (and thank you for the validation)! And the fact that I still struggle with that is just one more evidence that the system is designed to place woman in a subjunctive role.
I read about a woman who was shot 3 times as she was leaving a bar because she let a man down gently when he asked her out. I saw a video of a 14 year old girl getting beat to the ground and her head kicked into the sidewalk at a traffic light in NYC after a boy who asked for her number and she said no. In NYC! People filmed it. Nobody did anything! WTAF?
I just read it, but comments are locked so I hope it's OK that I leave a thought here.
I'm not American, I've never been to the states (do you know how expensive and difficult it is to get a US visa?! Crazy daisy I tell you) but my boyfriend is a New Yorker, born and bred. Still, I don't imagine I know what the political situation is beyond my opinion of your president.
I don't think you are wrong, though, absolutely not. But I feel that that's only one small gear in the cog. There are so many levels and layers of stickiness to unpack and unravel. I will admit though, I look at my Beastie Boy, he turns 9 in two weeks, and I go ice cold when I ask myself, “what if…? What more can I do now to ensure that my boy becomes a man who makes the good choices, stands up for what's right and leaves every human he encounters in a better condition than he found them?”
I think one of the things we teach our children generally is to stand up for vulnerable people. You teach it by doing it. Take them to places where there are vulnerable populations and teach them how to SEE others and care for them. Give them the words so when it happens they know how to respond. ♡
Beautifully said. He's a good kid, but he was bullied terribly at his previous school. It made him more empathetic but also very impressionable; all he wants in this world is a friend & so far he's had no success. He is being raised by my mom and I, she teaches him to open the car door, always stand when someone enters the room and open soda cans so ladies don't risk breaking a nail. He sometimes accompanies me when I do volunteer work, and I make sure he's acquainted with classic rock, mythology & chess. He loves Nirvana, so I always remind him of my favorite Kurt Cobain quote: "Never hurt girls. Even if they deserve it." 🖤
Well, the victimization that you see coming from these guys is pure DARVO, from the narcissist's playbook:
D eny
A rgue
R everse
V victim and
O ffender.
I'm sure you've seen the denial and the arguing, even right here in this comment section. But the narcissist's reversal of victim and offender is what baffles the narcissist's opponent the most. It's like sleight of hand, only in the moral realm.
And I venture to say that the men that we are discussing certainly meet most of the criteria of for narcissism: entitlement, lack of empathy, insistence that their worldview is THE ONLY way to explain the world, the rage when things don't go their way, etc.
Oh, darn.... I clicked an unwise button and my well-thought-out reply vanished into the void... (you know that feeling when you write something fantastic and then know you have no way to replicate it?) Anyway, let me try again (and this time, I'll leave cookie buttons alone).
Thank you for bringing up DARVO - it's an insight I hadn't--well...seen...--before, and it maps wonderfully onto this conversation. The reversal of victim and offender is textbook drama triangle as well as a staple of the narcissist's playbook.
I suppose my question (and I don't know the answer - I'd love to get your thoughts on it) is whether or not the majority of those trapped in the manosphere and other toxic masculinity spaces are clinically narcissistic or if they're simply borrowing from a playbook society has given them. My (possibly naive) self hopes that it's the latter, because an internal locus of toxicity requires clinical help rather than effective social change.
In my head, the geyser of hatred and loneliness and irrefutable harm is the other side of the same coin that has produced tradwife culture, angry feminism, and other reactions to patriarchy (btw, I very much identify as an angry feminist; anger is essential in this process, I'm just not sure it should be aimed at men in general rather than at the specific men and male-built systems that have landed us in this situation). It's a way of directing the very same feelings of disconnection, fear, outrage, and betrayal that patriarchy is so good at producing.
I hate to say that men are just as victimized by patriarchy as women are, because that puts us in competition with gender as the dividing line and I'm not sure gender should be a dividing line (false binary and all that). The type of harm that has been done to women is very different than the type of harm that has been done to men. And in this patriarchical pyramid, men are almost always in positions of power over women. So yeah, equalizing the harm there is not going to happen. And yet, the same structure that puts men over women also separates them from other humans in a way that has resulted in emotional dysregulation, violence, and death (again, I'm not equalizing the harm. The rates are different, the types of violence are different, they're very different situations). Men have more power to change the system, but I guess I'm skeptical of the idea that they are all responsible for a system that's been built over the last several hundred years and that harms everyone.
Now, that's not what I think you were saying. Not all men who participate in patriarchy are clinical narcissists. My hope is that not all men who participate in toxic masculinity spaces are narcissists (although I think the percentage there is probably higher). I guess the question is how to get all the people who are doing definitive harm (enough that women don't feel safe--because we don't!) to stop pulling from that playbook. And recognizing that it is the narcissist playbook is essential to that process.
Is it safe to say that patriarchy is founded on the narcissist's playbook?
Sorry for possibly derailing the conversation. The initial comment was half this size, but like book drafts, I suppose draft 2 is always going to be larger. *insert awkward laugh here*
I'm not sure that 79% of Americans believe that women and men should be equal. I think that 79% of Americans think that SAYING that women and men should be equal is the popular opinion right now and so that's what they report.
We still need to compare how many men ACT LIKE they are equal to women with what they say. A very different number.
Yeah. You're not wrong. Saying and doing aren't necessarily the same.
Right. Like, how many men in a survey would say "Rape is wrong".
There was a study a while back that scared me: after a particularly disgusting rape on a campus, the school asked men if they have sex with a woman without her consent or if they would rape a woman.
Something like 85% of the college men said that they would have sex with a woman without her consent, but when they got to the question asking if they would rape a woman, only 13% said Yes.
There are a couple of conclusions to draw from this study. 85% of college men don't understand that "having sex with a woman without her consent" IS RAPE.
And that 13% of college-educated men would admit that they would rape a woman is terrifying, but it confirms the rule of thumb estimate - that about 10% of men are rapists. Only it's even more than 10%.
Oh they understand all right.
Let's see how many women say female teachers raping young boys is wrong
all of them, in my experience
That guy seems like a troll.
What's your problem with "feminists"? Have they made you feel "less-than"?
I advise you to stop putting words in other people's mouths. You have obviously never spoken to a "feminist," unless you count screaming in their face "speaking to them."
Oh, I was anticipating someone in the comments throwing one of these "but what about men..." rebuttals. Your concern is valid. Anyone raping anyone is WRONG. But the timing of your argument is equally WRONG. Have you even read the entire article? The writer has backed up every single fact with numbers to bring to light how unsafe women around the world are. That's how you raise concerns. If you are so worried about young boys getting raped, who is stopping you from writing an elaborate piece on that and bringing up this concern in a more sensible manner? The problem is that you don't care about that abuse unless a woman talks about women's issues. Your "concern" is a rebuttal, nothing more, and that's pretty shameful.
Really well put argument. It just cuts right through the BS. Succinctly put! Immediate follow! Anyone who writes that well, I want to read!
Women should be required to register for the military draft. That’s the kind of true equality that feminists don’t mention.
And, 40-60% of rape accusations ate false
Women are required to register for the draft in "Israel": for the IDF.
I'm not sure that I want our country to emulate them.
Of course. You feminists want female privilege, not equality.
In Israel, women serve 2 years to the men’s three years, and are then exempted from the reserve requirement that men have to do.
You are a creep and a cretin. You are an embarassment to humanity.
You’ will grow old with 10 cats
I am. I absolutely am.
Maybe switch to women. Just know that you are much more likely to be a victim of domestic violence with a woman than a man. Have fun with that.
Too late, babes. Switch to women complete. But thanks for reinforcing why.
Just know that 41% of lesbian relationships are violent. Have fun with that
Women have long been neglected in medical studies. Studies have been done on males with heart 💜 problems but not women until recently. Studies on menstrual problems have either not been done or not done enough.
He is clearly trolling.
Pure feminist bullshit. If the focus was on men, men would live 6 years longer than women. The exact opposite is the case
Thank god, right? At least we get 6 years of peace from them
Your 10 cats can keep you company.
Frank - how awful your life must me to be trolling this thread. Boohoo to you.
Frank is always on the lookout for posts by women that he then jumps on and wanks on about “medical misandry”, mainly breast vs prostate cancer, like it’s a competition. I think Frank is a very hurt little boy lashing out at women and girls who largely ignore him because they’ve seen it all before.
You are a feminist cat lady that no man will go near
Have you considered that may be what a lot of us want? For men to leave us alone?
I know, right?
What a comeback, Frank. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Go register fior the military draft to prove your equality
Frank I see you commenting on a bajillion of these articles can't you get a life
That is inaccurate. Have you done your prostate exam yet? Best get checked FIRST before you call bad luck to you.
You feminists choose to ignore obvious truths, and promote misandrry. That;s why sane men only want the women that value and resepct men
All. Of. This. Makes. Me. Sick!
I became a feminist when I was a young boy and I heard our neighbor smashing his wife’s head against our common wall. Later when she tried to escape, he jumped on the hood of the car, fell off and she drove over him. SHE was charged with murder. They eventually dropped the charges but I knew how wrong it was. I’ve fought against inequality and violence my whole life and it doesn’t feel like it’s made even a bit of difference. As a man I hear how most men talk about and to women. When I speak up they laugh and call me names but sticks and stones…
Tell me, please, what can I do? What can all of us do to protect the women and girls in our life… and those we’ve never met? It’s a malignancy that must be stopped.
You and Patrick Stewart and so many others. Just keep being you. Out loud. Honestly, that's all you need to do. Because angry men don't care what women think. But as the number of men who feel the way you do grows, it will have an impact. It's can't not.
Not that many. And if tigers were roaming the street killing only toddler male children, not a single man would say "what can I do, oh, tell me what to do!" They'd solve it. I'm not picking on Darren or anyone else. But man, WOMEN are not going to solve this. MEN will need to be the ones to stop men. So, my recco is that the men who hate violence against women figure out all by themselves how to stop men from doing it - figure it out like your mother sister wife and daughter's lives depend on it. Because they do.
No. Women have to exercise our power to keep ourselves and our children safe. Men, absolutely will not, heavy not ever, and will not ever, change anything..they will not. The good men are far too few. They did this on purpose, it's the vast majority of them. They are our enemy. We need to use our power to get them away from us. No marriages, no living together. People will still have sex, women need to stop having relationships with men. The nuclear family is a killing field. Stop living with them stop trying to "have a family" with a man for a partner. There is no reason not to be as physically strong as we can be (we should all be lifting anyway for our health) and there's no reason for us not to have a lot of weapons. The problem with these men is their brains didn't fully develop because they have never done caregiving tasks. Our sons dont need to have that problem. They absolutely do not care if we get raped or if our kids get raped or if we die. Also a correction 51 percent of child rapes are by the child's father.
I’m not saying we wait for men. Of course women can and will do what we can to stop it. But we can do it only imperfectly without men. Men will have to learn. Some will need consequences imposed on them to learn. Some will want their sons to do better, and/or want better for their daughters, and make the needed changes to ensure it is so.
and I actually agree with everything you say here. Those are the consequences that will lead to change.
With all due respect, where did you get that 51% figure from?
I think if we rely on studies like the university of edinburg study with the anonymous self report, which is still an underreporting, but certainly more accurate than what cps can.corrobirate, one in seven report they would rape a child if they could get away with it and one in twenty have said they already have. That's a good enough basis for decisions to be made by women, I should look back at that and see what it says about fathers, we can't have pedophiles in our homes and I, for one, have certainly dated more than 20 men, in a group of 21 three want to rape children and one already has ...nuclear family thing is not it. Most of them have kids are married, and well off. According to that study
I got it from rainn. Which I think is where the other info came from. I can go back and check what I read later and come back with what I find. I was wondering which one read it wrong or if we have some other stay here by accident
Ok I looked and I actually can't find a disentangled statistic for biological fathers at all. It's set up the same way to some degree like the same format as two months ago but several categories are now missing and what we have is larger categories like people know. To the child etc. the numbers are as they were, of course. I trust rainn implicitly, they acknowledge their limitations regarding data collection. The hurdle with csa is that they're sticking with (understandably I think) what is reported and substantiated by CPS. Of course this is not even close to the actual numbers. In any event as for biological fathers I can't find any number of any kind on rainn. If someone else finds it please give me a heads up about where. I believe it's that of the family members who offended 51 percent were biological fathers. Not 51 percent of the total offenders but that's still a lot.
I understand the exhaustion that fuels this statement, Sanda. I've felt it, too. I also believe that women have the capability to change the world in a way that those who are served by the current system cannot. They will try to tweak the system because, to them, it works. Women see how the foundation was deliberately laid askew. We see the larger systems of power that are designed to betray those who serve them. We know a tweak won't fix anything.
I won't tell you to change your view (there is value in this approach - women can't remodel a system by themselves, and telling others to fix what they broke like the lives of those they love depend on it is a stirring call to action). Instead, I will continue to try to build a better system using the insight my exclusion has brought. And I will applaud you as you attempt to mobilize those who are served by the current system.
The cool thing is we don't need their particular to stay unmarried and refuse to live with them. That alone makes a world of difference. Not telling men (I used to think this was morally wrong I changed my mind) who their kids are will prevent a lot of danger as well. Not asking for or allowing their participation in parenting is a big step.
I read a wonderful article today about a German police commissioner (or someone like that) public ally acknowledging that women who don't date men are statistically much safer. I think you'd like it (I'll post the link later, but I don't have it to hand right now).
You're right that we need to step out of the same patterns and into our own power. That doesn't mean shunning men, but we must refuse to participate in the endless cycle of victim, aggressor, savior that fuels the patriarchy. And your approach is one good way to do that. It may not be the best approach for everyone (I believe that men need to learn to cultivate the same relationship building and holding skills women are trained into from birth, and families are one place for them to learn), but for many, it's the most straightforward way to stop the cycle.
Yes and thank you I read that,.you're right it was a police commissioner. I think men should be in families just not alone with a wife and children..that's the thing. Everyone needs a family and that can be good, but the nuclear family is a massively dangerous and expensive folly if social engineering that has failed spectacularly. It's too dangerous. If men are raised it to believe they're superior and entitled it will go a long way towards teaching them not to be violent and they won't be able to corner victims anyway. The Leah protection of children can be accomplished by men not knowing who their kids are as well. Their violent and sexual abuse are too often facilitated rather than ended by the justice system.. just like domestic.violwnve and rape. I believe that if we end these systems then life will change in such a way that men will be given more caregiving duties at you get ages and.thwir brains will develop fully, more often, and sooner. If you Google "male brain development from caregiving" you can see what I'm talking about. I'm of the belief that we will have fewer sociaptjic violent men that way. Also they,most likely, will feel emotionally connected to their family and not feel like creating their identity out of feeling like they have power over a woman.
I'm not sure if that might not be a self-defeating tactic, in the long run? I'm convinced that the roots of the patriarchy and institutions like marriage lie in men's insecurity/uncertainty about fatherhood. Obviously, women always knew they were the mothers of their children, but until the advent of DNA testing men could never be 100% certain. I'm think that that's what led men to control women's reproductive autonomy and ultimately gave rise to the patriarchy. I have no real evidence for this (but see below), much less proof (I doubt it's even possible to prove), nor have I come across any similar theory elsewhere. I can only say that I find it a persuasive explanation. One thing that might be considered corroborating evidence is that harems were guarded by eunuchs. It's a common misconception that eunuchs were incapable of sexual intercourse, they were. The salient thing about eunuchs is that they were infertile and incapable of impregnating anyone. I believe that there is ample evidence that eunuchs did have sexual relationships with the women they were guarding. As evidence for the theory it's weak, I know, but it does at least suggest that the men who kept harems were more concerned about ensuring that their offspring were truly theirs than any infidelity among its women.
It was not my intention, nor do I wish to deter you from any action you find appropriate, I just thought it's a point you might want to consider.
Men don't need to know if they have children. It's not natural for men to know if they have children and it's not helpful . The nuclear family is a bad idea that doesn't work. It was invented by men when they enslaved women after the invention of agriculture. That is when they seized all resources and wealth for themselves and enslaved women so they could force them to reproduce and claim the children as their property and have farm workers for themselvea for free.
It was a out money. Fatherhood isn't a natural part of human society. It was millions of years men didn't know which children belonged to them and everything was fine. Men should not be the people women raise children with as anyone can see by what a total failure it is. Children should be raised in a larger community a family or social group. Men cam.cimreinutw by caring for their sisters kids or their siblings. They don't have to have power to be part of a family and they do need to stop having a way to isolate their victims. It's too hard for two adults and their kids to survive and do all the work anyway. It's crushing even when the man helps.
both are necessary, I am not arguing for one or the other
Very true ❤️. Thank you for the work you do and the lives you touch. Together, we can all make the world a kinder place
AMEN 💯
Not that you need more evidence of the international web of these sexual assault sleaze peddlers. There was a Canadian connection to the ‘sleep porn’ operation that resulted in some arrests. My friend, Avery Haines was the investigative journalist who broke it open. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/article/second-arrest-linked-to-w5-investigation-into-online-network-of-sexual-predators/
Yes. Do it out loud. Call them out on their b.s. Silence = assent. Too many men are silent about this. They allow the culture to fester amongst themselves. But eventually the rotten apples will cause the whole barrel to rot.
Indeed. And bonus points for saying "assent" and not "consent"!
Angry feminist women have waged war against men for the last 50 years. They, and their male enablers, created 10 offices for women’s health, but ignored men’s health. They made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer. Male feminists like Darren Weir may find that out the had way.
Oh - and I have received 4 employment settlements for sex discrimination against men, because the feminists in HR never even tried to hide it.
AMEN 💯
While it might not feel like it is making any difference please remember that there are those of us that know, that feel safe around a man who speaks up. Your energy is different and many of us feel it. Thank you for continuing to be a real man in this world. We need you. We appreciate you.
This is very true — I just said that to a man I know and have only talked to a handful of times. The way he talks about his love for his daughter, the way he talks about his wife, and his overall energy feels warm. Comforting. Safe. It does feel very different.
Some men, of course, feel threatening from 200 yards away and you just know. But the majority of men feel like “Hmmm. Maybe. I’m not sure yet. For right now, right here, it seems ok. But I am scanning every word or gesture because…I just don’t know.” And there’s the exhaustion.
I would add that that vibe is lived and through truth. I knew a man who would loudly claim that he is a feminist and protects women but I felt was threatening and turned out to be very arrogant and mansplained so much. Another man I worked with on a committee did not self proclaim this but showed it in his behavior and how he worked in a group. He is a safe person. The first one bulldozed and told us how to be better progressives. The other one collaborated, listened and made space.
Thank you for your encouragement Jen. I won’t back down. We always have to look out for each other.
Amen.
Read "erased: what American patriarchy has hidden from us". Follow the sources. Learn about how deeply entrenched this *system* is that TRAINS men to be.... this. And help tear it the fuck down and build new systems, matrianarchy, based on care for human beings and the planet we all share. We will never build a just world playing within an unjust system. The structures must be eradicated.
And the current patriarchal fascist regime is doubling-down on this erasure. Thanks for the recommendation.
Indeed. Extinction burst is the hope for a future.
AMEN
Don't think that it didn't make a difference. Someone heard you.
You are already doing what I most want from men, to speak up and confront misogyny. I'm absolutely sure it's making a difference, we just don't always get to see the fruits of our actions. You understand what a lot of men miss which is yes that's risky and uncomfortable to challenge men, as are the life or death consequences of women's interactions with too many men.
Talk to the men in your life and make sure they are doing the work of understanding the problem and doing something about it, too.
My experience with men is that won't listen to a word women say.
They will call it "yakking away" or "nagging." And they get a lot of support from their buddies.
💯 Very true indeed. And all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.
If you have children raise them to be human beings.
If men knew the esteem women have for men that think and feel like you…. Wow!
If you are falsely accused of rape or paternity, you will see what feminism is really all about. They also made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer.
If you get prostate cancer, you will learn that your fellow feminists made sure that three times more taxpayer funds are spent on breast cancer than prostate cancer.
And, women batter men as often as the converse. Your feminist pals didn’t mention that to you
What can you do to protect women from inequality and male violence? For starters, quit allowing Islam into your country. Oops! A “feminist” like yourself could never be Islamophobic, right?
👎
My rapist was buried with military honors. I’ve never forgotten.
I was looking forward to this past weekend as a "feel good" weekend. The US Naval Academy Alumni Association was helping the USNA Women Special Interest Group host a "50 Years of Women" celebration, with talks, interviews, and a gala celebration party. Alumnae who are/were admirals, commanding officers, submariners [my favorite], astronauts, successful post-Navy civilians... it was great. They did a participant group photo on the last day, and even zoomed in I couldn't make out faces — too many people! All covered on social media, of course!
I hope all those women felt safe there. I bet they did, in that moment.
I hope nobody followed the news.
That made me smile, Jack. That must have been really nice to watch. It brings up an interesting thought, though. In a crowd, in public. Maybe that's where
In a crowd, in a group, in a room, at a table... surrounded by sisters who went through the same things, or worse, going through the Naval Academy. Women who, no matter what else, will always have each other's backs. Women who are stronger together. (Okay, I stole that last one from the event motto.)
I was in the first class with women in 1976 — I have friends who still have nightmares, and at least one who didn't go to the event because she can't deal with the memories without an anxiety attack.
In a crowd of women.
I did electrical work with guys who assumed I was one of the guys. I let them; it made life easier. My partner developed early onset Alzheimer's and I had to retire early to take care of her. On my last day, a normalish seeming young man from another company was installing a sound system. I told him what happened and that it was my last day. He paused for a couple of moments and then said, "Is it too late to get a divorce?"
I was just too stunned to reply. Too raw. How could anyone think like that? I packed my tools and never went back. Just another of many examples of how their minds work while they look normal on the outside.
As far as dating sites go, and men's b.s. in general, I cheerfully advocate reading Jennie Young's material. (https://substack.com/@jennieyoung) She teaches the practical (not-rocket-science) application of Critical Discourse Analysis to what men's words reveal about their true selves vs. what they say.
But then sometimes they just say it. Especially when they believe that only men are in the room.
This is a great article with a lot of very important data and analysis.
I wanted to briefly say my opinion as someone who I would say "feels" like a minority of men are "good men." I would say this is how I feel. When I read statistics like this or hear stories I feel awful. I'm not saying this for sympathy, because feeling awful is important for really understanding how awful it is. I think even "good men" who say "not all men" say that because they are looking to protect themselves from the idea that they are "bad." Most men are afraid to acknowledge that they are a part of an oppression that goes back to the beginning of humanity. They are not mentally equipped to understand something like that.
And again I want to say it's not an excuse. I've needed a lot of support and work to accept that most men are dangerous to women, and that that is still true even if I try not to be a part of that statistic. It feels quite awful to feel that my base nature as a man is awful and predatory. Its hard not to overlap my personal worth with that of one of the most significant identity I hold in the eyes of society, but its still important to not put up those walls when told stories. We have to accept them and keep listening to truly understand the reality of those who do not identify as our group.
In more optimistic news, some archaeological findings suggest that men actually have not always oppressed women. It may be a relatively “young” development (in terms of humanity’s 200,000 years of existence).
Indeed, up until about 7000 years ago, most if not all of the world was matriarchal to one degree or another. The War on Women, which we euphemistically call "patriarchy" to make it sound nicer, is NOT timeless. It has a beginning, and it has an end. And the end is sooner than many people think, as that evil system is currently in its death throes, hence all the lashing out in an extinction burst. Only when women finally reclaim their rightful place as the new leaders of the free world, will there every truly be lasting peace in this world, Goddess willing.
oh okay I see what you are saying and understand. Sometimes the right thing to do might just be to accept it and move forward rather than what i did with writing a whole paragraph about it and make it about me. Thank you for your comment
I appreciate you reading this and taking the time to write, Ryan, even if what you wrote wasn’t 100% “politically correct.” I’m guessing that this feels like a safer place to express yourself on the topic (including how it makes you feel about yourself at times) than to do so with other men. And therein lies the problem that can only be solved by men. Thank you for being an ally to women; now, please spread the word wherever, whenever, however you can. 🙏
Thank you for your comment Deanne. I will try my best to do that
Thank you, Ryan. ☺️
The situation is now so screwed up that even when a man does speak up in support of women, we have to suspect that it's a ruse of some sort. The trust factor is in the gutter.
I hope to be a better man than the good man that I thought I was. Thank you for writing this post.
Thank you for writing this Linda. I’m scared. So fucking scared that my baby girl is going to grow up and not be safe anywhere. Scared because I’ve seen how disturbingly common it is for this stuff to happen and no one bats an eye.
Not long ago, a nearby school board member attended a public and live-streamed meeting where he turned to one of the students, touched her arm, and told her that she’s hot. He asked where she went to school. The other school board members laughed.
No one said anything about it.
After the incident went viral on social media the school “censured” him. But he didn’t lose his job or face any real consequences. I actually know a few people who know him and apparently he does that all the time. A fat, balding, creepy old man fawns at and flirts with children in broad daylight. No consequences. Even when it goes viral on social media.
We live in a red state. A very red state. So I shouldn’t be this shocked or angry because republicans do it all the time—they’re currently doing it with the Epstein files—but I am repulsed and desperate, so desperate, to get the fuck out of here.
She will not be safe even before she is grown. What will you do to help make the world safer for all girls and women?
I don’t have a good answer tbh. I’ve got a unique lifestyle where I exist in a state of near total social isolation (for reasons you can probably infer from my first comment).
I’m active in spaces like this, and do everything I can to be an ally. I do my best to not side with the executioner. But really, I have no idea. I just don’t.
The best things you can do are give her a good sense of self worth so when someone is trying to impress her with nonsense she'll sniff it from a mile away, teach her that she doesn't have to be nice if she feels uncomfortable and give her the words to advocate for herself, teach her how to fight... we may not be as physically strong but someone's willingness to fight will deter many. She's going to get hurt and especially by guys, but you can do a lot to save her from the worst of it :/
Motherless getting this kind of coverage most likely means the views for this month will blow all other months out of the water, but framing it as ‘the rape academy got as many views as temu or Reddit’ really helps put this epidemic in perspective.
We are living through and epidemic of sexual violence, and I should know because the first time I was sexually abused I was 3yo, then again at 19yo…asking a 3yo to ‘prove it’ is just disgusting as it took me 37 years to even be able to articulate what happened to me before I ever even knew the words
Thank you for writing this. Really sobering. I spoke with my friend last night who has young adult daughter. She said a lot of young women are choosing to be alone. The men are devolving while women are evolving. Why would they want a relationship with a man who thinks she is not entitled to be an equal? So this revenge murder is a scary thing.
I had an older white male friend say to my face “it’s hard being a white male these days.” I gave him an earful and I call him out on other inappropriate things he says. And he seems to be processing it and I see less of it coming from him, which is good because I’m a woman and he seems to be listening. So, even though some of these guys won’t listen to a woman and more guys need to speak up, maybe we women can help some men to the other side of their misogyny and locker room talk so they can help others get there.
I'd love to know what you said to him.
The idea of the eye test is what I can't shake. I don't have a good answer, but I want to say what I keep coming back to.
Humans have always been capable of this. History is worse, not better. Women were property. Public torture was entertainment. Witches burned. We've made real progress, but it's halting, and we lose ground as we gain it. The arc doesn't bend on its own. It bends because each generation raises the next one to be better than they were, and that's the work. That's the only work that has ever moved anything.
Right now we're failing at it.
Somewhere porn stopped being understood as fantasy the way a movie is. For a lot of kids it's the first and primary way they learn what sex is. They get phones at 10. They meet hardcore material before a first kiss. Their sexual imagination forms there, with no one talking to them, because fathers aren't and schools won't. The vacuum gets filled by Tate and whoever comes next. Algorithms don't raise children well. They raise them for engagement, which means they raise them on the worst of what's in us.
That's the step back happening while we watch. Not that things were better before, they weren't. But we're handing boys worse raw material than the last generation got, and then we'll be shocked at what they become.
If there's an answer it has to start with how we're forming them. That's where progress actually gets made or lost. And right now we're losing it.
Men who were exposed to porn when they were still boys have a hard time with sex with an actual woman when they get older.
There's a lot to be said about it getting worse because those who get caught suffer no consequences. Start removing body parts and I bet more people will think twice.
To all the rape apologists who pop up in these comments on pieces (some are bots, based on their characteristics) about this DIY drug and rape site-
ONE IS TOO MANY.
Stop arguing about numbers, and evil “agendas.”’
You know what’s an evil agenda? Ignoring for thousands of years the cries of sisters, mothers, grandmothers, daughters, girlfriends, wives, children- ignoring or not believing them and not seeking justice and how to make this behavior stop and become rare in our civilization.
But no- it’s waaahh, waaahh, poor me, imma good boy. Lemme quote numbers and help NO ONE but myself feel better. Such mean women - we should all live in the fantasy world like I do where only guys in dark alleys and occasional creeps hurt women. And imma save the women and children with my big hero talk like I’m in a movie! Look at me! Don’t look at the actual darkness fomenting and gathering strength. Just know it’s not me and you should just trust guys with no anger about the high traffic to a DIY rape site. Guys like the not me and those numbers are fake in comment sections are as useful as vomit flavored chewing gum.
BE AN ADULT and teach yourself about the problem and it’s ugly reality. It doesn’t stop existing because you have never had to deal with it. If you’re upset and mad because it makes women even more uncomfortable with men- be mad at the MEN, not the women, for the unsafe environment. We are simply protecting ourselves, using our survival instincts, and using our power to protect not just our gender- but any who are vulnerable to that level of depravity and criminal disorder.
If you refuse to believe a lot of men are that depraved, well- hope it never happens to you or someone you care about. Because by then you make the stark realization that indeed-
ONE IS TOO MANY.
Reading that “79%” statistic makes me remember being in college and having my sister tell me a kid I knew from high school sexually assaulted one of her friends and thinking, “That can’t be, he’s a really nice dude!” because he was nice to ME, and I responded with something like, “Are you sure?” and she dropped it. I wonder how many guys have had this experience, and how many women who are close to them never told them about anything like that again once they didn’t believe it the first time.
I am horrified at my response, twenty years after the fact. My kid will know better. I will make sure of it.
Teach him about the Red Zone. Every university woman gets taught about it when they arrive on campus as incoming freshmen. It's a six week window when the danger of campus rape is most acute. That's when we learn about walking in groups, knowing where the blue light trail is, not going to parties at frat houses alone even if you're dating a member ( maybe especially when you date a frat member), studding your keys between your fingers. Tell him that it is his responsibility to be the guy who intervenes, who steps up and tells predators to stop and leave a young woman alone, to be the guy who goes to a girl whose drink he saw getting spiked then tells her and takes it from her. Teach him these things. Because the number one thing that derails a young woman's university career is being raped on or near campus during her freshman year.
Well, he’s two, so first I’m going to make sure he understands how to hear and accept “no” as an answer (for literally anything). But yeah. Heard and locked in for future reference. Thank you.
You're welcome. I've seen young women drop out or flunk out because of a campus-related rape.
I'm 54. At 9 I was sexually assaulted by two men. At 16, I was raped in an alleyway, by a boy I knew. By 22 I was in a physically and sexually abusive relationship.
In February, I discovered my my ex-fiance had stolen my life savings, and gambled everything away.
So, while I'm sure it's not all men, I've officially given up on them. It's not worth the chaos and the danger.
Thank you for this well-thought-out post. I feel the same disgust, the desperation, the despair every time I open the internet. I've been the woman who said no in the grocery store - and I remember thinking afterward that I should have been kinder with my refusal, let him down more gently. I remember the weeks of trying to convince myself that a stranger who comes up to you while you're doing your weekly shopping and asks you out has no right or reason to think that you're going to say yes. A flat, "no" and walking away is a good way to handle it! After all, he just walked up and asked with the same lack of preamble or warning. And yet, I still feel bad. Because I've been taught that being "nice" is my responsibility, not his.
Worse, these patterns seem to be solidifying and expanding. And I agree that the algorithms and the manosphere are at the core of the issue. Outrage and a victimization mindset (distinct from true victimization) have been masterfully captured by the prevailing storytelling mechanisms of society and redirected at minorities: women, immigrants, the global majority, lgbtqia+, the list could go on. Because we've all been betrayed by the system we were taught to revere, and that outrage has to go somewhere. So we get the manosphere. We get increasing rates of violence. We get normalization that exacerbates all of the above. Because what matters isn't that the feelings of betrayal and outrage are aimed at the cause, what matters is that they're aimed in such a way that can reinforce the system. What matters is that those who are in power can stay in power.
And I'm tired of it.
I'll tear down the patriarchy, sure (it's got to be done), but I'd rather cut out the middleman and build safe circles and communities around myself. Because the outrage is exhausting.
Anyway, thank you for this wonderful essay. Thank you for keeping your fire of outrage lit. Someone has to do it, and I'm too exhausted right now. Let me know if a cozy comedic fantasy short story about witches would help brighten your day - it's my version of resistance, and I'd be glad to share it with you if it might help. We're all in this together.
The fantasy that letting a man down gently will affect his response pattern, is a fiction courtesy of the patriarchy’s cultural programming.
Very true (and thank you for the validation)! And the fact that I still struggle with that is just one more evidence that the system is designed to place woman in a subjunctive role.
There’s a short piece I wrote about the larger issue, but Substack won’t let me attach the link.
If you’re interested, it’s called “The Peacock Syndrome” and it’s located at wastedink(dot)substack(dot)com
My work is being suppressed… but everybody is feeling it on this platform.
I read about a woman who was shot 3 times as she was leaving a bar because she let a man down gently when he asked her out. I saw a video of a 14 year old girl getting beat to the ground and her head kicked into the sidewalk at a traffic light in NYC after a boy who asked for her number and she said no. In NYC! People filmed it. Nobody did anything! WTAF?
I tried to send reply with a link to a piece I wrote but Substack won’t let me.
Look up “The Peacock Sydnrome”. It’s at wastedink(dot) substack(dot)com
I just read it, but comments are locked so I hope it's OK that I leave a thought here.
I'm not American, I've never been to the states (do you know how expensive and difficult it is to get a US visa?! Crazy daisy I tell you) but my boyfriend is a New Yorker, born and bred. Still, I don't imagine I know what the political situation is beyond my opinion of your president.
I don't think you are wrong, though, absolutely not. But I feel that that's only one small gear in the cog. There are so many levels and layers of stickiness to unpack and unravel. I will admit though, I look at my Beastie Boy, he turns 9 in two weeks, and I go ice cold when I ask myself, “what if…? What more can I do now to ensure that my boy becomes a man who makes the good choices, stands up for what's right and leaves every human he encounters in a better condition than he found them?”
I have one job!
I think one of the things we teach our children generally is to stand up for vulnerable people. You teach it by doing it. Take them to places where there are vulnerable populations and teach them how to SEE others and care for them. Give them the words so when it happens they know how to respond. ♡
Beautifully said. He's a good kid, but he was bullied terribly at his previous school. It made him more empathetic but also very impressionable; all he wants in this world is a friend & so far he's had no success. He is being raised by my mom and I, she teaches him to open the car door, always stand when someone enters the room and open soda cans so ladies don't risk breaking a nail. He sometimes accompanies me when I do volunteer work, and I make sure he's acquainted with classic rock, mythology & chess. He loves Nirvana, so I always remind him of my favorite Kurt Cobain quote: "Never hurt girls. Even if they deserve it." 🖤
If comments are locked on your end, its because Substack does not want us to communicate. ALL OF MY WRITING IS FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC.
Yep. I can't like or comment.
Well, the victimization that you see coming from these guys is pure DARVO, from the narcissist's playbook:
D eny
A rgue
R everse
V victim and
O ffender.
I'm sure you've seen the denial and the arguing, even right here in this comment section. But the narcissist's reversal of victim and offender is what baffles the narcissist's opponent the most. It's like sleight of hand, only in the moral realm.
And I venture to say that the men that we are discussing certainly meet most of the criteria of for narcissism: entitlement, lack of empathy, insistence that their worldview is THE ONLY way to explain the world, the rage when things don't go their way, etc.
Oh, darn.... I clicked an unwise button and my well-thought-out reply vanished into the void... (you know that feeling when you write something fantastic and then know you have no way to replicate it?) Anyway, let me try again (and this time, I'll leave cookie buttons alone).
Thank you for bringing up DARVO - it's an insight I hadn't--well...seen...--before, and it maps wonderfully onto this conversation. The reversal of victim and offender is textbook drama triangle as well as a staple of the narcissist's playbook.
I suppose my question (and I don't know the answer - I'd love to get your thoughts on it) is whether or not the majority of those trapped in the manosphere and other toxic masculinity spaces are clinically narcissistic or if they're simply borrowing from a playbook society has given them. My (possibly naive) self hopes that it's the latter, because an internal locus of toxicity requires clinical help rather than effective social change.
In my head, the geyser of hatred and loneliness and irrefutable harm is the other side of the same coin that has produced tradwife culture, angry feminism, and other reactions to patriarchy (btw, I very much identify as an angry feminist; anger is essential in this process, I'm just not sure it should be aimed at men in general rather than at the specific men and male-built systems that have landed us in this situation). It's a way of directing the very same feelings of disconnection, fear, outrage, and betrayal that patriarchy is so good at producing.
I hate to say that men are just as victimized by patriarchy as women are, because that puts us in competition with gender as the dividing line and I'm not sure gender should be a dividing line (false binary and all that). The type of harm that has been done to women is very different than the type of harm that has been done to men. And in this patriarchical pyramid, men are almost always in positions of power over women. So yeah, equalizing the harm there is not going to happen. And yet, the same structure that puts men over women also separates them from other humans in a way that has resulted in emotional dysregulation, violence, and death (again, I'm not equalizing the harm. The rates are different, the types of violence are different, they're very different situations). Men have more power to change the system, but I guess I'm skeptical of the idea that they are all responsible for a system that's been built over the last several hundred years and that harms everyone.
Now, that's not what I think you were saying. Not all men who participate in patriarchy are clinical narcissists. My hope is that not all men who participate in toxic masculinity spaces are narcissists (although I think the percentage there is probably higher). I guess the question is how to get all the people who are doing definitive harm (enough that women don't feel safe--because we don't!) to stop pulling from that playbook. And recognizing that it is the narcissist playbook is essential to that process.
Is it safe to say that patriarchy is founded on the narcissist's playbook?
Sorry for possibly derailing the conversation. The initial comment was half this size, but like book drafts, I suppose draft 2 is always going to be larger. *insert awkward laugh here*